Special Guest Daniel Levin

Levin walked away from an opportunity to run a billion dollar business, to hitchhike around the world to find happiness and inner peace. He studied in a seminary five years and left one day before becoming a Rabbi and he has lived as a Monk in a monastery for 10 years. As Director of Business Development, he grew Hay House from $3,000,000 a year in sales to $100,000,000 a year in revenue. 

Levin is rare blend of businessman and mystic who sees what others do not see. It has been this one quality more than any other that has thrown him into some of the most exclusive boardrooms to help companies innovate new ways of finding solutions when the old ways stop working.

He is the author of The Mosaic, a life changing fable that invites people to listen to those others do not hear and to see the situations in their life differently. To learn more about Daniel Levin, please go to:  www.DanielBruceLevin.com.  Also check out his other website http://www.themosaiconline.com/

Today we are going to talk about what Daniel' learned from having a developmentally delayed daughter.

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SPEAKER_04 0:01

Hey hey hey and all welcome to the greatest crucifix crypto podcast and we are in the same we're gonna speak through the most grateful way possible about our personal experiences that we've had throughout care and we're also gonna cover some things using our life. We don't share anything in all real people telling their stories. This is the same place, this is a place we're going to share our stories without feeling judgment, without being misunderstood, really being turned into sharing our experiences. We're going to come together as one to figure out the best way to effectively change the legislation and the laws, and also ways to help our children. Our goal is to be the voice for those who can't speak. We're here to share our stories, we're here to share our realities. It's time to come together and be that voice for these children. So please join us as we embark on this journey. Alright, guys, today's guest is Daniel Levin. Daniel walked away from an opportunity to run a billion-dollar business to hitchhike around the world to find happiness and inner peace. He studied in a seminary five years and left one day before becoming a rabbi, and he has lived as a monk in a monastery for 10 years. As director of business development, he grew Hay House from $3 million a year in sales to $100 million a year in revenue. Levin is a rare blend of businessman and mystic who sees what others do not see. It has been this one quality more than any other that has thrown him into some of the most exclusive boardrooms to help companies innovate new ways of finding solutions when the old ones stopped working. He is the author of The Mosaic, a life-changing fable that invites people to listen to those others do not hear and to see the situations in their life differently. To learn more about Daniel Levin, please go to www.danielbrucelevin.com and Levin is spelled L-E-V-I-N. So www.danielbruce Levin.com. Also check out his other website, www.themosaiconline.com. That's www.the M-O-S-A-I-Conline.com. So today we're going to talk about what Daniel's learned from having a developmently delayed daughter. I hope you enjoy today's chat. Today we are going to talk about what Daniel has learned from having a developmentally delayed daughter. So, Daniel, I want to turn it over to you.

SPEAKER_00 3:07

Thank you so much. Dana, it's uh it's nice to meet you. We met all of about 18 seconds ago. Um, but it's nice to meet you, and I'm and I so admire people that work with people who have special needs kids and people who are um given the opportunity to see what life's like with a special needs kid. My daughter, my daughter was born developmentally delayed, so the beauty of our situation was nobody could say what she actually had. Um, and she went through the first three years of her life with me in denial, not wanting to know, and um my wife wanting to know, but not really being able to find out. And we went to doctor after doctor after doctor, and we didn't love the idea of keeping continuing to test her, but they would rule out things, they would say she's not autistic, she's not this, she's not then. But that was in the years that was she's 30 years old now. So 30 years ago or 25 years ago, autism was something you either had or didn't have. There was no autistic spectrum. So now when you look at it, she probably is somewhere along the autistic spectrum. Um, but still today, when we take her, they'll say she has um pervasive developmental delay, they'll say she has cerebral palsy, they'll say she has my mild mental retardation, they'll say she's autistic. Um the only thing they can probably rule out is Down syndrome, but I'm sure we'll come up, we would bump up into someone who would tell us they have Down syndrome too. So the frustration for me was not knowing what the diagnosis was. Not that that would help, but finally we sat with somebody and we said, look, we're gonna need help in doing this because we don't. I was a guy guy. I said to my wife when when our daughter Elisa was born, just understand I'm never gonna change a diaper. You know, I'm not that I'm just I'm a guy guy, I don't do that type of stuff. I love it. Yes, I'll give you all the things. Um 30 years later, I'm still changing diapers. So, you know, it's uh I they have that great saying, Man plans and God laughs. Um, and we've all just evolved quite a bit through that process. Um so the frustration for me was not knowing and still not knowing. Uh but finally they gave her a diagnosis of uh mildly mentally retarded, which meant in California we could we could get services from the regional center. And the regional center allowed us to put her into uh programs, um, and those programs would be for like her school, like she went she went to school, but then after she finished school, she was allowed to go into a into a group home. She was allowed to go into group programs. And the state here is I don't know how we do it, we're bankrupt as a state. But for the 30 years that I've raised my daughter, the state has been very, very kind in terms of helping us in in programs and support and and um giving us to some degree some uh time away where we would have I think we had uh six or seven hours a month where we had respite care where we could go out and you know go to a movie or just do something.

SPEAKER_03 6:42

So right.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Um it is it was nothing like I ever dreamed. Uh when I look back on it now, I can say it's the greatest blessing I ever had. Um but there were a lot of years in the course of that time where it was not the greatest blessing I ever had. Uh I would say every single hair on my head and my beard is has has turned has turned white with the situations my daughter has brought me through. And they've been they've been hard. I mean I'm not gonna lie. Um it's only been in the last five or ten years that it's really turned for me. And so that's she was that's I mean, I always loved her, don't get me wrong. I always loved it.

SPEAKER_04 7:33

Oh yes. We always love our children, but sometimes we don't like them because of all the stuff that comes with it.

SPEAKER_00 7:42

I I remember driving. We we live in a beach town in California, and uh she used to love the beach, and so she wanted to go to the water, and so we got in the car, I put the top down, we were gonna drive, we were driving to the beach, and we were driving through the town, and then somewhere along the line, she just decided she didn't want to go to the beach anymore. And so I was saying, Well, we said we're gonna go to the beach. Come on, let's just go to the beach, we'll see what it's like. And she threw a tantrum in the car, screaming and yelling, and people on the streets said, 'What are you doing to that girl?' And they said, We're going to and suddenly the police were behind my back, and I pulled over, and I I, with all the love in my heart, I said to the policeman, do me a favor, whatever you think I'm doing, multiply it by 10. Take me, lock me up, and you can deal with her. Like you just take me, put me in a cell, um, because it just had gotten that frustrating.

SPEAKER_04 8:36

Now, I do want to stop right there because I want to commend the person for placing that call because we've actually have stories of the opposite, totally, where there was somebody in major trouble and nobody did anything to command them. And I I always say, just call I mean, we had a case on us that they called in on my son. DCF here already knows about it because obviously we went, I mean, we lived with him for two years.

SPEAKER_03 9:05

Right.

SPEAKER_04 9:05

They came, they go, We already know his history, just uh we know that it was that and nothing else. So it's hard when you're out in public to let these people under to know and for people to understand, it may just be because they're overwhelmed. They're they had too much of this, too much sound, too much, it could be anything that sets them off.

SPEAKER_00 9:29

Yeah, I didn't I didn't have any bad feelings about the people that called in what was going on. I just I looked at the policeman and he looked at me and he said, What's going on? And I said, Sir, with all due respect, my daughter's developmentally delayed, she's just having a moment. Um, I'm at I'm I'm at the end of that moment. And so I I don't want you to lock me up. I won't let you lock me up, but but just the thought of a few minutes in a cell by myself without her going crazy on me. I would really appreciate. And he said, I'm so sorry, what can I do to help? And I said, You're you're fine. What you've already done is calm the situation down, and you know, we'll just go back home now.

SPEAKER_04 10:08

And that in and of itself, having a police officer understand and just be and turn around and say, Hey, what do you need? What can I do?

SPEAKER_00 10:18

Like Well, you can tell a lot about people from who they are. And he saw that I wasn't, I mean, he saw that I wasn't doing anything.

SPEAKER_03 10:27

Right.

SPEAKER_00 10:29

But but along the line, you know, my daughter needs everything. So I had to shower her, I had to change her, I had to change her diapers. I, you know, along the way, we've had I've had I've had people that I really trusted also step in and really try and and hurt me. You know, so I had a nanny who we had at one point, and um she called, I went away with my daughter on a vacation. I came back, she had cleared out the house of some of our things and some of her things, and she had called family services and said, you know, I was being sexually abusive to my daughter. Well, that would be the furthest thing for I mean, I can't even imagine doing that. But some but that's what people do when they get hurt, they hurt other people. And so we had a uh family service person come and I said, Boy, I'm happy you're here. You know, because in lots of cases, this is what happens.

SPEAKER_01 11:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 11:26

But it's like when I was a kid and we used to say, if someone says, you know, you beat your sister with a with a broom, what are you gonna say? No, I didn't. So I said, the only thing I can say to you is we have an extra room. I would invite you to stay with this for a week, a month, a year, however long you need to ascertain what I'm doing, because if what I'm doing is wrong, I want to know, but I don't believe there's one thing about what I'm doing that's wrong. Right. But if if you want to come here and live with us and check it out, you're more than welcome to do that. And she said, Oh, come on. You know, I understand. I'm so sorry this is happening. And that's what people say, but but it doesn't stop people from doing that, and people of less calm get caught up in these fights, which doesn't do anybody any good.

SPEAKER_04 12:13

Yes, yep. So taking back to the the thing that you were saying you wanted to know, but you didn't want to know, and you wanted to know, but you didn't want to know, and I know a lot of times that's what any special needs parent does. I mean, that's what we're fighting for right now is 100% what does my child have so I know how to help him or how to help her in your instance. I just I've had a lot of people, I don't want them to be diagnosed, I don't want them to be this because then you know everybody will look at them differently. It's not that. It's tell me what they have so I know how to best help, you know, whatever situation that they get into.

SPEAKER_00 13:02

I think for me it was it was more in the earlier years in the in B before three and and stuff like that, where I just I wanted to believe she was developing slowly. She looked normal, she acted, she acted somewhat normal, she just but while other kids were running and and played, she was just learning how to sit up. You know, she was definitely behind in everything. But I thought everybody has their you know, she's just a slow, she's and I had been in uh uh uh make it even weirder. I I had been in a I had been in a in a yoga practice in a yoga community with it with teachers, and some of the biggest saints in India were diagnosed as crazy and stupid and and delayed and retarded, and just they didn't function the way other functioned. And so I just I just thought, well, maybe Elisa's like that. Maybe she just doesn't function, and maybe she over time she'll come along. So and I didn't want to accept the fact that my child was there was something wrong with her, or maybe that I had done something that had done something wrong, or I was responsible in some way, and and I think when I finally sat with it and felt hold it, doesn't matter what you want to acknowledge or don't acknowledge this, right?

SPEAKER_04 14:24

There's something going on here, but you still go through that. I mean, I don't go through that part being the parent that gave birth to somebody with special needs because uh my two are adopted. Um, but I do struggle with their special needs in the event that some of their diagnoses are due to what their mom did. So I mean, I don't struggle with that part of you know, I did something wrong, but I can I know similar feelings to it just on the infertility side of it, too. So it's it's not an easy, it's not an easy road for anybody.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

Yeah. And and what would it be like if we realized all right, guys?

SPEAKER_04 15:10

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SPEAKER_00 16:58

This is a gift that we've been given. Uh my daughter, my daughter has become the biggest, most beautiful gift I could ever dream of having. And she's helped me, she's helped me re-establish the way I do things and the way the world around me does things. And I teach her practice to corporations. So it's really amazing because what I saw in Elisa is that when she speaks and she doesn't get heard because she can't communicate like you and I are talking about. So we're not talking about you know philosophy or Descartes or Kant or you know Socrates. We're talking about what do you want for do you need to go to the bathroom or not?

SPEAKER_03 17:43

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

Right. And um and she'll she'll try and say what she wants to say, and and it's hard to understand her because her language is not clear. And being with her a long time, I understand her more than most people.

SPEAKER_02 17:55

Right.

SPEAKER_00 17:56

But some but still sometimes I don't. And when I don't understand her, she'll yell. And I th and to her credit, sometimes when she yells, the way she pronounces those syllables is slightly different, and I and I do get it, right?

unknown 18:10

Right.

SPEAKER_00 18:12

But but most often it's not that way. Most often she's she's just yelling now, which makes it all worse because I just can't hear her and she's getting more and more frustrated. And when she yells and I don't hear her, then she'll throw a tantrum. And then it's then it's hard to understand anything, but she wants me to. And when I don't understand it, when she throws a tantrum, then she'll come and attack me. She'll come running to me and try and rip my shirt or bite me or do something. And this went on for it went on for a lot of years. It probably went on for like 15 years, and sometimes it happened as many as 10 or 15 times a day. And finally, like I think I'm a pretty intelligent person, but I I don't think I was very intelligent in those days, right? Yeah, but finally I looked at her and I said, Alisa, you know more than anything I want to understand what you're saying. So can you talk to me without your words? And she went from the midst of her rage into this beautiful angelic-like smile. And in perfect English, she said, I am daddy. And I said, What the heck are you talking about? You are what do you mean you are daddy? How are you saying this to me? And she went like this. She pointed her finger to the side of her head, which I understood to mean she was putting thoughts into my head. So I said, Are you telling me you're talking to me telepathically? Are you putting thoughts in my head? And she started to laugh uncontrollably, and that laugh became contagious, and she was laughing, and I was laughing. It felt like we laughed for months. It was probably two or three minutes, but we just won't stop laughing. And from the moment she did that, she's never yelled, she's never tantrummed, and she's never attacked. And what she taught me is every single person I know acts exactly that same way. When they speak and they don't get heard, they yell. When they yell and they don't get heard, they create a scene. They try and make chaos. When the chaos doesn't work, they try and destroy something. It can be a marriage, it can be a family, it can be a building, it could be a time square where people are congregating, they just take a gun and shoot them. And it all comes down to how do we listen and how do we hear people? Because if people get heard, they don't need to yell, they don't need to tantrum, and they don't need and so we need to look for ways, and especially in this community of ours, of developmentally delayed kids or or foster kids. Those kids have been talking for a long time and not being heard. And so the only way they know how to get attention is they act out. But when they act out, they're just trying to get our attention, they're not saying what they really want to say yet, because they're they're just trying to get our attention so they can, but all too often we we placate the action that's getting attention and don't listen to the thing they're really wanting to say, which doesn't solve anything.

SPEAKER_04 21:12

Right.

SPEAKER_00 21:13

Does that make sense to you?

SPEAKER_04 21:15

A hundred percent, yes, because that I mean that's what our children go through is when we calm down and sit down and just talk. Like take everything away, just talk. Tell me what you were trying to tell me. Tell me what tell me what you need, tell me it it just you can see like your daughter, she just went from this to that. Yeah, you just see that like that calm come over them. And that's really for anybody, they just want to be heard.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

A hundred billion percent. And so what she what what I'm about to do, what I was about to do before coronavirus hit, is I was about to get into a van and go around the United States and just sit where And sit and listen to people who don't get hurt or who don't feel hurt. And I thought those were going to be the homeless people or delayed people or the or the retarded people or the people of lesser means. Until one day I was sitting in my chair and my wife said something to me and she said, um I said, Yeah, uh-huh, that's good. And she said, You didn't hear a word I said, did you? And I said, No, I'm I'm I was actually completely preoccupied. I'm so sorry. She said, Well, there's so many times that I hear you don't I I I don't feel like you listen to me. And I and I thought, isn't that a great statement from the person closest to me in the world? And I'm gonna go out and listen to people like there's something off in this in this picture, right? Um but I I have the same thing happen when I talk to two CEOs of companies. They say, I can't say what I actually feel, because if I say what I actually feel, there'll be a closeness between me and the employees, and they won't respect me. I need to keep that distance. Employees in those same companies say, when I say to them, are you able to say what you want to say? They said, Hell no, we're not able to say it because everybody's everybody's in competition with each other here. There's not a culture of trust here. If we say what we really feel, people will use it against us. So we live in a land where nobody's saying what they really want to say because of fear that it will be used against them. Yep. Doctors aren't being aren't able to say what they need to say because we're they're scared of lawsuits.

SPEAKER_04 23:31

Well, we even have doctors that aren't even allowed to refer anymore because they would get in trouble with the medical board.

unknown 23:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:40

Just found that outrageous. It's just say, I'm like, just tell me. I can't just tell me.

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Right.

SPEAKER_04 23:46

Just tell me.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

And it makes life exhausting, especially for people in our situation. Because all we want to hear is what is. We just want to hear what they believe. We can choose on our own if we believe what they believe, what they say. Right. Like, I don't all I also don't have to, like, there's another place that I think is super important for people to know. Just because a doctor says it doesn't mean it's true. Yeah. There have been so many cases in in our world where people have been diagnosed with something and told they'll never be different and they become different. Yeah. So it it it's all to take it with a grain of salt for what it is, it's to help you, but then not to be trapped in that diagnosis.

SPEAKER_04 24:29

Yeah, and that makes sense. Oh, yes. And two, and a lot of the diagnosis, you can have the same exact diagnosis across the board. You could have five kids with the same diagnosis. Yeah, not one of them are gonna be the same.

SPEAKER_03 24:42

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 24:43

Just like pregnancy.

SPEAKER_03 24:44

I love that.

SPEAKER_04 24:44

You can have everybody that's gonna be pregnant, everybody pregnant, and it ain't gonna be the same delivery. Yeah, it ain't gonna be the same the nine months.

SPEAKER_00 24:52

Like it's not gonna be the same kid, right?

SPEAKER_04 24:55

Exactly. Yeah, yeah, let's hope so. Boy, that would be something. But uh it's just that I mean, I know many people that have the same diagnosis my son has, and they're everybody's different.

SPEAKER_00 25:11

Yeah, yeah. So what we have to really just do is take it all as information. And part of the reason why I love this idea of the mosaic, and and I wrote a book called The Mosaic. If anybody wants to read it, it's uh it's uh a slightly a different story, but not that much different. It's the story about a a boy who loses his parents two years apart on the same day. And he asked the adults where his parents went, and the adults told him they're in a place called heaven. So he went out and search for the place called heaven, and he didn't find rabbis and ministers and priests and Sufis and saints and medicine men and shamans and all those things. He found common ordinary people, he found a trash man and a street artist and a homeless man and a and a blind woman. And he was wondering why am I why are these people coming to me? But in every moment when he sat and he listened to them, hearing their story made him see them entirely different than he had seen them when he first came up. And after having that happen over and over and over and over and over again, he realized the world he sees is just that, it's the world he sees, it's not the world that is. And when he realized the world he sees is not the world he that is, it naturally invited the question what would the world look like if I didn't see it the way I see it? Yeah. And that perspective is what we want from getting a doctor's opinion, from getting a friend's opinion, from getting we just want to see different perspectives so that we can make a mosaic of all those different perspectives and get clarity as to how the world looks from a lot of different angles.

SPEAKER_04 27:00

Yes, absolutely. And I just we just had an um instance of that. I constantly share with my therapist, you know, what's going on because she meets with our children weekly, and I had sent something to her that was majorly concerning. She viewed it, read what I sent, because I sent pictures and video and all that other stuff too, and she saw something completely different, yeah, that was more concerning than what I was seeing in it and had never even crossed my mind.

SPEAKER_03 27:33

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:34

So when you take that that that's really what we want is other people's opinions, so we can gather all of this information and do what's best for our training.

SPEAKER_00 27:46

And and we have to be strong enough to make those decisions.

SPEAKER_03 27:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:51

Because just because someone is trained and sees something doesn't mean what they're seeing is right. We live with these kids. Yes. And and there's nobody, I mean, they have knowledge, they don't have the experience.

SPEAKER_04 28:04

Yeah, and I I've had a lot, I'm sure you have too, that say, oh, they they seem so nice, they seem so calm, they seem so well behaved, they seem so insert, whatever they seem, I would have never known. And I I like that I get that comment rather than that can't be true, which I also have gotten that too. Yeah, you can't be said that can't be that child. I'm like, yes, it is this child. Take them for 24 hours.

SPEAKER_00 28:33

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Or 48 or six months, right? No.

SPEAKER_01 28:39

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 28:41

And I say that all with the deepest love of my heart because I wouldn't want my daughter to be anywhere else. But yeah, but right now, in these days, you know, at a certain age, she saw kids in her school going away to college, and she decided I want to go to college too, Dad. Well, she couldn't go to college, but what she meant from that was I want to go live in a dormitory, which was a group home. And it broke my heart to have her live in a group home, but she's been so freaking happy being there. And she comes back here every other weekend. We've we were coming back every weekend, but that got too confusing for her because she didn't. She was four days there, three days here, four days here, three days there, whatever it was. It was too, it was too disconcerting. So we we realized about every two weeks is is perfect for about a four-day visit. And um, she could not be happier. She's just the happiest little kid when I'll go.

SPEAKER_04 29:33

That's awesome. That she's uh first of all comfortable doing that. Because I know people, yeah, you gotta get into their new routine and yeah all that fun stuff.

SPEAKER_00 29:45

I would always say, Um, I would hear what the school was saying, and I said, Well, that's just I that doesn't even sound like my daughter because she's completely different. Like with me, she's verbal, she talks, she says stuff. With there, she was crickets, you know, and they said, Well, it's gonna take her a while to get used to it. She's comfortable with you. Right. With us, it's gonna take a while, but now she's gotten to that beautiful place where there is no difference between where she is and where she when she's with me or when she's somewhere else. And that's exquisite.

SPEAKER_04 30:15

Yes, that's amazing to hear. I love hearing stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 30:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:19

That no matter how much she struggles, she's still excelling. Oh, she is and she is enjoying.

SPEAKER_00 30:26

Yeah, and we have to never lose faith in them. We have to hold, we have to hold just imagine if we're if we're walking into situations where people think the worst of us, eventually we end up thinking the worst of ourselves. Yeah. And imagine for ourselves, just you and me. Like if people think you'll never do this, you can't do this, you're no good, you won't be able to make that, you can't do that. You're just not, you're not smart enough to do that, you can't do that. And that's not what they say, but that's the feeling that they give. Why would you ever attempt to do it? But when you're around people that say, You can do this, I know you got, I mean, you'll do it. And when you when the time's right, you'll do it. I'm 100% sure you'll grow to this point when the time is right and you'll get it. I and I see you doing it, and I know you're gonna be able to do it, whether it's now or five years from now or ten years from now, I know it's gonna happen. Yeah, then they grow up believing that they're gonna be able, they can have something much more.

SPEAKER_04 31:15

Yes, absolutely. So well, all right. I appreciate you uh spending time with me today. It was so such a pleasure to meet you via video.

SPEAKER_00 31:27

Yeah, absolutely. The new reality.

SPEAKER_04 31:31

Yes, I I'm thankful for this too, just because I I don't have to worry about seeing somebody in person, you know, and all that. I can I get to talk to some amazing people. So to learn more about Daniel, you can visit his website, Daniel Bruce Levin.com, or you can check out the website themosaiiconline.com, and I'm assuming your book is available at that website as well.

SPEAKER_00 32:00

It's available there or at Amazon if anybody wants to get it. I think it's a for these days when we're locked in, it's a charming fable. Yes. So it's it's a great read, and for anybody who wants it, it's perfect time to read it.

SPEAKER_04 32:13

And both those websites, if you're trying to scramble, write this down or you're driving, they're in the show notes. Just click more information. You can visit him there. And again, I thank you, and we will talk soon. Okay, that's it. So I'll go do the intro.

SPEAKER_00 32:32

It says you're still recording.

SPEAKER_04 32:34

Yes, I am. I I can stop. I if I stop, then it starts to download and I don't want it to jack up stuff.

SPEAKER_00 32:40

Okay. All right, okay.

SPEAKER_04 32:41

Because we made it through with with one little small iffy part.

SPEAKER_00 32:47

Yeah, but that was good. It's good enough. We made it. Yes, I thank you so much for having me. Thank you for this work you're doing. I think it's really important.

SPEAKER_04 32:57

So well, thank you for being on. And I also do a QA session. So if I get any questions on your episode, either I'll reach out for your answers.

SPEAKER_01 33:06

Please.

SPEAKER_04 33:06

And you can either like soundbite it to me, whatnot, or we can just hop on and do this again.

SPEAKER_00 33:13

Love it. Whatever, whatever you need, I'm here for you because it's uh we have to be in this together, especially in this situation, especially in this time. So yes, and I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_04 33:23

Thank you very, very much, and I hope you have a nice evening.

SPEAKER_00 33:26

You too. Big love to you. Thanks. Take care. Bye-bye.

SPEAKER_04 33:30

Thank you all so much for listening to this episode of the Graceful Truth Unscripted podcast. Here's what I want you to do next. Take a screenshot of that episode you're listening to right now, head on over to your Instagram or Facebook stories and tag Graceful Truth Unscripted support people in your podcast. Head on over to iTunes and leave us a review. Let's put the shell. If you have ready, please ready. If you don't forget, if you have a question for the shimmers, Instagram or Facebook or even screen.